FLOR Carpet Tiles Destroyed My Floor & Subfloor (Don’t Use Them Under These Conditions!!)
As I shared last Friday, the floor and subfloor in our home gym are destroyed. I’ve been noticing a hump going through the center of the floor in the room since last summer, about four months after I installed the FLOR carpet tiles in our home gym in February 2023.
I won’t rehash all of the details. You can read about it here. Long story short, I thought it was due to the drought last year causing our perimeter foundation to sink as the ground dried up, which in turn, was leaving the piers in the center of the floor to push the floor up. But even after the drought was over and the rains came, it didn’t get better. Then this year, as the warm and humid weather came with spring and summer, the hump in the floor started getting even worse.
When I finally took the carpet tiles up, I saw moisture underneath them, and the middle hump in the floor looked like this. I placed that board across the hump so you could really see just how bad it is.
Since I originally thought the problem was with the foundation, I kept the appointment with the foundation guy on Friday, even though I was fairly certain it wasn’t a foundation issue after finding all of the moisture under the carpet tiles.
And sure enough, I was right. He came, he did his inspection, and he rereported that our foundation was perfectly fine and needed no adjustments or repairs. He suspected, as I did, that the problem was the FLOR carpet tiles not allowing the floor to “breathe”, thus trapping condensation underneath as the cool air from inside the house met the hot, humid air under the house. After looking under the house, he did think that we might possibly have a plumbing leak in a pipe running under the home gym floor. He based this on his observation that the dirt under a joint in the PVC pipe looked darker than the rest of the dirt, and he thought that could be because of moisture due to a leak. But he wasn’t sure, so he suggested I call a plumber to check it out.
I was thankful to learn that our foundation was in good shape. After all, a faulty foundation can potentially cause issues like cracking drywall, or even actual structural issues. So at least that news was positive. And as he suggested, immediately after he left, I called the plumber to make an appointment. So yesterday (Monday), two guys came to do a pressure test on our plumbing and they found that we did, in fact, have a leak. So the skinniest guy suited up and crawled under our house, into our very cramped crawl space, to search out the leak.
Side note: If I were to build a brand new pier and beam house, I’d make certain that the crawl space was at least two feet high, if not more. I love having a pier and beam house, but at the same time, I feel so guilty every time someone has to crawl into our cramped crawl space. The other guy couldn’t fit. Most men can’t fit under our house. So if you’re building a new pier and beam house, keep that in mind! Anyway…
After about ten minutes of crawling around in our tiny crawl space, he found the leak. He showed me a video of it. There was a very tiny, very slow drip in a joint under the kitchen sink. And to be clear, the kitchen is several rooms away from the home gym.
After he repaired the tiny drip under the kitchen sink, they did another pressure test, and everything was fine. So that’s the only leak we had. And both of them said there’s no way that a tiny, slow drip under the kitchen sink could cause that kind of damage in a floor several rooms away. In fact, the guy who had to crawl under there said that our crawl space, even though it’s very cramped, is also very “clean”. That was his word. So it’s not wet and muddy under there.
So back to the home gym, there’s no other damage in the room. There are no window problems, no ceiling/roof problems, no leaks anywhere else. So that just leaves one culprit — the FLOR carpet tiles.
As several of you suggested in my post on Friday, the problem is that our house is old, it’s built on a pier and beam foundation, and the crawl space is vented to the outside. I know for a fact that the subfloor in this room (and in all parts of our house that still have the original hardwood flooring) is just 1″ lumber, like if I went and bought a bunch of 1″ x 10″ and 1″ x 8″ boards and used those as a subfloor. That’s exactly what they did back when this house is built. And it’s very that there is no vapor barrier under the subfloor or between the subfloor and the hardwood flooring, although the areas in which I’ve taken up the original hardwood flooring (i.e., the hallway) did have tar paper between the subfloor and hardwood flooring. I would imagine that would be considered a subpar vapor barrier by today’s standards, and I would also imagine that 75-year-old tar paper isn’t as effective today as it was the day it was put down brand new.
So while these aren’t standard building practices today, it was standard back then. And it all held up perfectly find for seventy-five years until I came along and put FLOR carpet tiles down on the floor in that room. And because we live in such a humid climate, and our crawl space is vented to the outdoors, and we keep our house very cool (due to Matt’s health), putting those rubber-backed, non-breathable carpet tiles down on that floor created the perfect environment for condensation to get trapped and have nowhere to go. So as the subfloor and flooring soaked up that moisture over the last 17 months, it started bowing and bending around the floor joists.
Sadly, there’s only one fix. The flooring and the subfloor will have to be replaced. There’s no fixing that floor. It’s too badly damaged to salvage. Since I removed the carpet tiles on Friday, the floor has dried out completely. There’s no longer any moisture at all trapped in the floor. Now that the floor can “breathe”, all of that moisture has evaporated. But it’s not like the subfloor or floor boards straightened out as they dried. They dried in that same exact shape they were when the floor was full of trapped moisture, and we still have a hill going down the middle of our floor.
I’m not going to lie. This makes me want to cry. I haven’t cried yet, and I’m really trying to keep a good attitude about it, but I have my moments where I come pretty close. It’s just so disappointing to spend so much time on a room, only to have such a catastrophic failure in just a little over a year after finishing the room. But I’ll put on my big girl pants and face the challenge. I may allow myself to have at least one little cry over it, though.
This isn’t something that I’m going to jump into right away. The good news is that there’s no danger of structural failure. Even when the floor was full of moisture, it was still structurally sound. There were no spongy areas where we were concerned we might fall through. And now that it has fully dried out, it seems as structurally sound as the floor in the rest of the house. But the hill is a serious tripping hazard, and I’ve stumbled over it several times already.
So for now, I’ll have a good cry over it, wipe my tears, and then focus on finishing my studio and studio bathroom. Those are still my priorities. After those are done, I’ll come up with a plan for replacing the subfloor and floor in the home gym. I’m not sure what part I’ll do myself, if any, so I’ll just have to assess that when I’m ready. I may do all of it myself (with help, of course), or I may just do the demo of the current floor and let the pros put in the new subfloor and flooring. Or I may just let them do all of it. We’ll see. This is a disappointment, for sure. But I won’t let it derail me completely.
The bottom line is this. DO NOT USE FLOR CARPET TILES if you have the following conditions:
- You live in an old house, and
- You live in a humid climate, and
- Your home has a pier and beam foundation, and
- Your crawl space is vented to the outside, and
- You’re not sure if your hardwood floor has a vapor barrier.
But even if your floor does have an (old, original) vapor barrier that’s original to the house (like tar paper), but all of those other things apply to your home, I still wouldn’t take the chance. It’s just not worth it.
So that’s the story of our home gym floor, and my experience with FLOR carpet tiles. Our little home gym looked great for about four months before things started going bad. I just wish I had realized what was causing it last summer. Perhaps I could have taken the tiles up in time. Goodbye, my pretty little home gym. It’ll probably be quite a while before you look pretty again.
FYI, when I started researching if my FLOR carpet tiles could possibly be the cause of my floor issues, I came across this video. While it’s a different situation, it confirmed that the tiles were the problem, especially after foundation and plumbing issues were timed out. So I want to pass this along to any of you considering vinyl flooring. https://www.facebook.com/share/r/aT7QSVzViytNnag9/?mibextid=W40cHY
Addicted 2 Decorating is where I share my DIY and decorating journey as I remodel and decorate the 1948 fixer upper that my husband, Matt, and I bought in 2013. Matt has M.S. and is unable to do physical work, so I do the majority of the work on the house by myself. You can learn more about me here.
So sorry this happened to you guys!
What a complete bummer!
Maybe your homeowners insurance will cover replacing the floor? I hope so!
Hugs, Hugs, hugs. I am so sorry this happened but glad there is a remedy even one that is frustrating at the moment. Bless you and Matt.
Two steps forward and one step back, alas, that is how it is with old houses. Water, she is a cruel mistress, and I have had to chase her around the farmhouse a lot at times, but when we replaced all the old plumbing a couple of years ago, my chase had ended. I look at your BEAUTIFUL home, and wish I could see the same thing here, but we did all the mechanicals, structural, and what I consider, the ugly side of things before I got started on any decorating plan, and now after almost 13 years am just getting to the “pretty” stuff…on a not so full tank of enthusiasm. My husband likes to remind me that I had 16 houses before this one to decorate and go wild with in our Military moves, so going a little slower is OK at our age.
Do let FLOR know what your difficulties have been with their product, so that they may enclose a notice for folks who might find themselves in the same situation down the road. Nobody likes surprises when it comes to our homes.
Keep your chin up, we are all here riding along with you in the imaginary bus, and everything’s going to be alright, I promise.
Cheers!
Kristi, it’s OK to have a good cry over the floor situation. It will make you feel better and definitely warranted after all your hard work in that room. If you can afford it let a professional do the work. Not that you can’t do it but finishing your other projects will make you feel better. Also I believe the gym is beneficial to both you and Matt. So fix as soon as you are able so no one gets hurt in that room. Bless you both
What a disappointment. Is there any recourse with the floor tile company? My husband has advanced Parkinson’s Disease, so I can empathize with you. Given all you deal with, my advice would be to call a reputable company to deal with the floor and get it off of your mind and your check list. Concentrate on working on things that are enjoyable to you. This clearly will not be one of them. My friends all tell me to take care of my mental and emotional health. It is so important as a caregiver. Best wishes to you in this project and all others. I love your use of color!
Aren’t the tiles the second ones you tried?
Yes, the first ones were foam floor tiles, and I didn’t finish installing those because I didn’t like the way they looked. So I gave them to a friend and she used them under her new above-ground swimming pool. 😀 They worked perfectly for her!
Oh, what a bummer! As you’ve recently learned the drastic impact your in-home humidity has on Matt, should you consider some kind of crawl space wrap to provide more a barrier between the crawl and the house?
Also, why do you love pier and beam homes? They do not exist here so I know nothing about them, but it seems like you’ve had a lot of problems with yours (leveling, sinking, WATERING the foundation?????) even though this issue was not foundation related. What’s the upside to pier and beam?
There are several reasons! I’ll write a post about it. 😀 But yes, I’d 100% choose a pier and beam foundation 100% of the time if given a choice.
LOL! Much easier to deal with plumbing and drain issues! Much easier to move a bathroom with pier & beam than with a slab!
We live in the north (Michigan ) so we all have basements. Do people build with pier and beam in the south due to the ground conditions?
We call them stumps here in Australia. My son is a plumber and he has said there is no way he would build a house on a slab. Any plumbing issues and up comes your slab. I laughed at the skinniest plumber going under the house, my son sent me a video he did while under a house last month with only the height of his hand as room under the house, my son is 6’2”! Kristi, you most likely have no structural issues because back then houses were built to last, unlike now. The stories I read about and see on tv re issues people have with new builds. Wishing you the best and hopefully your home insurance will cover the cost.
I used those foam floor tiles in a laundry room over a cement floor. Nice and warm and soft on the feet but the darn things expand and contract. They couldn’t do it smoothly when they were held down by laundry equipment so the bulged up where they couldn’t move. They need to be dry laid with a gap around the perimeter for expansion and be cut around furniture or things that would hold them down.
I almost suggested that the Flor carpet tiles could be the issue, but then (if I remember correctly) you mentioned a issue in the guest bedroom as well. To expand on your DO NOT USE above, my mom was considering a vinyl plank flooring (I think it was Luxury Vinyl Plank) as a replacement for carpet in her mobile home. Only one of the several flooring stores she visited had the knowledge & experience to inform her that this would rot her plywood underlayment. There was some form of the newer vinyl plank flooring that they said would not cause this problem, but I don’t remember what it was.
You just reminded me of a video I came across when I first started googling “FLOR carpet tiles destroyed my floor” to see if anyone else had this problem. I didn’t find that exact thing, but I did find a video that clued me in that the carpet tiles were the problem. I’m going to add that to my post.
You have a great attitude. Have the good cry and maybe an ice cream bar as well. Tomorrow is a new day.
I remember you having floor issues in the gym before installing the Flor squares — a damaged floorboard and spacing along the perimeter than you sealed to prevent your AC from escaping. Seems like a whole new subfloor and floor (with whatever moisture-protection updating is standard today) is indeed your best bet for a solution to the problem. Sorry it has to create so much disappointment and expense. Another example of your extraordinary willingness to re-do big things to get them right.
It is heartbreaking and you deserve to have a good cry over it…and then move on.
You always manage to meet your challenges with strength and resolve. I continue to be impressed with your ability to face obstacles that come along and move forward even when it means stepping back and redoing a step along the way.
I’m so sorry. Might there be any recourse against the FLOR company? Will your insurance cover any of the repair?
The website for this product indicates it’s a rug. It’s not intended as flooring itself, as was used here.
WHERE SHOULD FLOR GO?
FLOR plays best with hardwood, vinyl tile, sheet vinyl, or laminated flooring that is smooth, dry, level, and clean. If needed, sweep or vacuum first, then wipe up excess dust. Below is what their site says:
FLOR plays best with hardwood, vinyl tile, sheet vinyl, or laminated flooring that is smooth, dry, level, and clean. If needed, sweep or vacuum first, then wipe up excess dust.
FLOR can be installed virtually in any indoor area that has a clean, hard, dry surface. It can also be installed over smooth, fully-cured (minimum 90 days) concrete floors.
Reading their site, it really does look like it’s a rug to put over your floor, not something to use as a floor itself.
That said, this is still very sad this happened. I feel bad for Kristi for sure! And she deserves a good cry! I just don’t think the recourse is against the company in this case.
Page 5 of the installation manual has instructions for installing it as wall-to-wall floor covering.
Hi Kristi! If you can’t removed the heavily bowed timber and replace with a fill-in for the moment, and having said goodbye to your pretty gym, how about painting the tripping hazard a bright colour so you remember to watch out? You taking a fall would not be fun for either you or Matt.
1. Contact your insurance company. Possibly covered.
2. Contact FLOR. Depending on their answer, you might want to call a lawyer.
3. Before you rip out the whole floor, now that it dried, try a little trick hubs and I used on a 1930s house that was flooded. He used a Skil saw and a recip saw to cut the length of the boards at each hill. Some he had to cut twice to get enough room to flatten the wood. Doubt the the plank subfloor is having hills. Ours didn’t once it dried out (far more water than you have!) and we just nailed the flooring to the subfloor. Then put carpet down and that’s how we had flat floors. WITHOUT YOUTUBE IN THE 80s!!!
My motto for dealing with stuff like this that can be heart breaking is to make a list:
Problem then 1. Fastest 2. Easiest and 3. Cheapest way to fix. Then the list gets deeper if those don’t work. I know you have the capability to evaluate what you need to do if the first 3 things don’t work. No need to dive into the deep end of the pool to start. Try the shallow end & steps first. Before doing anything, go to YouTube and search for “buckling hardwood floor repair”. Texas Home Improvement has a decent video and there are several others.
I hope this won’t keep you out of the gym and undoing all your strengthening progress. I find that keeping up with my movement is like money in my healthcare bank paying the best possible interest, compounding daily!
Glad you got to the bottom of this and while not the best news also not the worst.
I could cry for you, it is heartbreaking but stay focused on your pretty studio and time will help deal with it when you get around to it.
I wouldn’t assume the floor is 100% dried out yet, yes, the outer layer most likely is, but I’d bet the interior of the wood planks are still high moisture compared to what they should be. Wood does expand/contract, and the final problem may not be as bad as you think once the wood is completly dried. A dehumidifer in there would help expedite, but unfortunatly only time will really get all the wet out. It didn’t absorb it in one day, it’s not going completly dry out in 1 day either.
We had some cupping with our hardwood floors from moisture, and running a dehumidifier in the room helped dry out those floor boards exponentially. It was probably still 6 months before the flooring completely dried out and it almost returned to its original shape. Not quite, but almost.
I’m sorry you’re dealing with this. You may feel better sooner if you consider this an opportunity. The floor was not in good shape (I know the bow didn’t exist) but you said it would need to be replaced eventually. All things happen in God’s good timing, not ours. Man plans, God laughs. I wonder what He has in store for you.
Perhaps replacing the floor can be included with the new addition project. It would likely only take them half a day, and you can continue with your list of DIY projects.
Like all things – this too shall pass and be better than you expect right now.
Kristi…I’m starting my comments before I finish reading your blog today.
Go on ahead and cry Kristi. Crying will relieve all of the tension this has caused you. Then put on your big girl pants and tackle things. Tension does not go away. It builds up and comes out in different ways. Headaches, muscle spasms, depression, and many other ways. Even anger. Cry now and stay on an even keel later.
Now I’ve finished reading the rest of your blog. Good girl. Have that cry and I believe you will in time get it all fixed and it will be just as beautiful. And, taking your time getting your gym floor fixed is a good important decision. You have a full plate right now and doing things in your own time is very important. You are amazing little girl.
OMG! Your beautiful room. Go ahead and have a darn good weep, 😢, I certainly would! Have you been intouch with the manufacturers? I’m sure you aren’t the first this has happened to! It should have been clear on the product, this could happen under their carpet tiles. I would definitely be a bit pushy in looking compensation or full cost repair. Remember, Kristi, you have a big following and word about this product can go far and wide. They could lose out big time.
“I would definitely be a bit pushy in looking compensation or full cost repair.”
Why? It’s not their fault the house is poorly built and has no proper vapor barrier and insulation. I seriously don’t know how the original builders thought the solution of “no moisture barrier and no insulation” was any solution at all. No wonder Matt is always complaining about humidity in the house!
That said, attempting to blackmail the Flor company would be an effective way to replenish the budget, but personally, I’d ask the home insurance peeps for help first – they really ought to help with unforeseen nonsense like this.
It’s an old house, built before better building practices were designed. They didn’t do a lot of the things that are done now, like vapor barriers. Our 1st house we built in 1975 did not have vapor barriers, drain tile, sump pump, etc., and our basement flooded three times before we could afford to fix it. Then when we wanted to sell 27 years later, we had to have a radon detector installed! Something new is always going to affect earlier builds.
Our house is not “poorly built.” Just because something was built 75 years ago when building standards, processes, and products were different, that doesn’t mean it’s “poorly built.” Houses built like ours in our area have been standing for 150 years or more, and are still standing, and still going strong. And as I said, “…the areas in which I’ve taken up the original hardwood flooring (i.e., the hallway) did have tar paper between the subfloor and hardwood flooring…” That’s the same product that’s still used as a moisture barrier on roofs today. Maybe you’re not aware of this, but when our house was built, polyethylene moisture barriers weren’t exactly a ubiquitous building material, and polyethylene hadn’t even been discovered yet. So no, it’s not “poorly built.” It built with materials that were available and standard for houses in our area at that time, and many of those materials are far superior to what’s available today. Have you ever compared a 75+ year-old piece of lumber (like a 2″ x 4″ board) to the stuff available today? The difference is pretty remarkable.
Ooooh, I hit a nerve! My comment wasn’t for you, but for the person who tacitly suggested you try to use your “blog fame” to pressure money out of the Flor company. Just pointing out that it’s not fair to them. And yes, old houses are old and not up to current standards and technologies- I know that, thanks.
I’m sure you already know this, but you can always seal off the outside venting of the crawl space. We did this to my mom’s house a few months ago. (You can call someone like ServePro to give you an estimate.) They came in and sealed off the vents, sealed the crawlspace with plastic, installed an electrical outlet, and then installed a dehumidifier, drainage, and a sump pump to remove all humidity and moisture from underneath the house.
I know it doesn’t help your current situation, but it might 1) help preserve the crawlspace and flooring of your home in the long run, 2) could potentially help to reduce the overall humidity inside your home, and 3) lower your utility costs long term.
Comparatively speaking, it was not that expensive considering all that we gained from the situation.
Wow I’m so amazed that the problem was the floor tiles. They should come with a warning. I also thought they were the perfect floor.
Have you tried wetting it down and putting something very heavy on top while it dries? Thats how wooden ship builders bend and/or flatten their wood.
It might be worth trying before doing a full demo!
I could come lay on it! HAHAHAHAHAHA!
It would actually have to be pushed up from underneath. The hump is as low as it will go. It’s directly touching the floor joist. It’s the floor/subfloor on either side of that joist that has drooped towards the ground.
:O Wow!
This is so disappointing after all that work you did! Would this also be a problem with tiled floors, or are tiles more “breathable” somehow?
I don’t know, but I wondered the same thing. I’m not concerned about our bathroom, though. The guys who did all of the initial framing and construction in there brought that room up to current code.
Please get at least 1 more dehumidifier or at least a humidity meter. All that moisture has to be going somewhere when it evaporates.
UnexpeIf you start a Patreon, I’d gladly chip in. I have learned so much from you over the years!
Please get at least 1 more dehumidifier or at least a humidity meter. All that moisture has to be going somewhere when it evaporates.
Unexpected projects like this can be so stressful. If you start a Patreon, I’d gladly chip in. I have learned so much from you over the years! And the inspiration you’ve given me is priceless!
***Kristi, please disregard the 1st draft of my comment. Phone decided to submit while I was still working on it.🙄
I was going to ask if your insurance was going to cover this until I watched the video. Wonder if you can have the spray foam added under the house, or if it would be too dangerous for the guys who do that? (Toxic fumes?) That kinda falls partly on the FLOR people, not adding warnings on their product installation instructions to allow a vapor barrier be present. I would for sure let them be aware of what happened to you. You never know, they may be nice and offer some compensation!
I don’t think there’s any way they could get spray foam in that crawl space.
Kristi- I’m so sorry!!! Sending prayers for an easy, affordable and superior replacement!
I seem to remember that Galey Alix had mold under her carpet tiles in her home. She used them as a regular rug, on top of wood, on a concrete foundation in FL. I’m looking for the post. She had normally recommended them prior to that, but was concerned about recommending them going forward.
So sorry for the mess. I’m not sure I would have expected anything like that. Some of the comments don’t make great sense to me…but I am sorry for the trouble those tiles made. Hopefully it won’t be too long before you can get back in that gym, and take care of you and Matt’s exercise routine. AND, the beautiful room will be back. Chin up Kristi. As always, we are learning through you, and sometimes WITH you. Thank you.
Kristi,
Please call your home insurance company. They “may” cover some of the repair costs. A friend had some sort of similar thing with the way her deck allowed water to collect under an outside wall. Insurance covered new deck, new wall, and new siding.
This was some time ago so insurance may laugh when you ask but it’s worth a phone call since it’s not a lack of maintenance or expected home repair thing.
Sorry for your problems. Sometimes life really stinks!
Hope it all works out and the fix is quick and easy.
Oh, Kristi, I am gutted along with you. Your gym was absolutely the most gorgeous room I’d ever seen (I’ve said that about every room in your house as it is finished but the gym really really was!) and the majority of us are heartbroken right along with you. So much work went into that floor! I hope you reach out to FLOR and inform them fully of the problems so they can at least put a warning label on the tiles. It just isn’t fair at all and I am so sorry this is happening. The idea of a crawl space that is less than 2 feet high means it is a slither space and I don’t blame you for not wanting to go down there.
I don’t think you should immediately think it all needs to be torn out. We had water damaged floor a couple times— the first time was parquet on plywood over post and beam. I put down some sheets of plywood and piled hundreds of pounds of weight (bags of concrete) on the bulge. I left it for 3-4 months while it dried out thoroughly. When I took the weight up, it had dried flat! No problem at all.
Second time was hardwood on concrete that water seeped under. The flooring guys ripped up just the wet section and pieced in new boards, then refinished that section to match. Much cheaper than having to do the whole floor, and looked great.
A flooring guy with a moisture monitor will be able to give you some more info. Ask several out for a consult.
I don’t think all is lost!
Also I used flor tiles wall to wall in our playroom over tile on concrete. They are a great product and we had no issues with them. I hope you can install a moisture barrier or something that will allow you to keep them!
I had a similar (though not quite as bad) problem with peel and stick vinyl floor tiles. I had replaced a worn carpet with vinyl tiles that were advertised as being able to lay them down tight to each other or they could be grouted like ceramic tiles. No way was I going to spend any more time on my knees grouting them so I laid them tight together. Then I rented the house out. When the tenants left I went in to check the state of the house and in the areas where I had used the floor tiles there were humps all over the floors. Turns out they were too tight for the moisture to escape but not tight enough for the floor washing water to be stopped from going in. Vinyl tiles don’t breathe either. I had to replace the subfloor but luckily not the joists as we had a dry cement basement.